[osflash] Disseminating OSFlash (was IDE mon amour, the poll results.)

Tue Sep 5 12:05:38 EDT 2006

It's funny how I felt compelled to write three paragraphs but Martin got the
point across 10 times better with two short sentences and one well placed
expletive.  Nice work, Martin.

I guess the question to put to the community is whether OSFlash is a real
platform or just a large collection of dynamite tools for Flash.  Maybe Haxe
is the platform and the 'marketing' time would be better spent there.

On 9/5/06, Ray Chuan <rctay89 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> On 9/5/06, Martin Heidegger <mastakaneda at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I would rather say something like: this. Fuck this looks more like flash
> > than everything on osflash.
>
> Point taken. No long list of osflash-hosted projects or info all over the
> place.
>
> > yours
> > Martin.
> >
> > 2006/9/5, Tim Scollick < tim.scollick at gmail.com>:
> > >
> > > Ray,
> > >
> > > I'm not saying that it's difficult to use OSFlash tools, I'm merely
> > stating that lacking documentation that considers more than one
> technology
> > at a time (tools and code) creates a barrier to using the tools.  Think
> > about what Carlos' article about getting started did for OSFlash over a
> year
> > ago.  It was helpful because it gave you a step by step process to get
> > things running fast with MTASC, swfmill and ASDT.  But you have to go
> off
> > OSFlash to find it.
> > >
> > > Open source projects are generally more difficult to get going than
> > commercial products and developers are accepting of that fact.  However,
> the
> > most successful OS projects do a great job at this 'getting started'
> stuff
> > (Haxe comes to mind).  Ruby on Rails isn't better than a lot of web
> > frameworks.  It gets it's a lot of it's buzz because when you go to the
> > homepage, you can click one of three buttons to get started.  Twenty
> minutes
> > later, you're at hello world.
> > >
> > > I just thought of this now, but maybe OSFlash needs a page like this
> > linked from a big icon on the main OSFlash page.  What do you guys
> think?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Tim
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 9/5/06, Ray Chuan < rctay89 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > On 9/5/06, Tim Scollick <tim.scollick at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > I'm also in this boat, Ralf.  Look at how many java developers are
> > piling on
> > > > > Flex, most of whom have never learned the Flash IDE.  You could do
> the
> > same
> > > > > thing now with OSFlash tools (ASDT or FlashDevelop) and ActionStep
> or
> > > > > ASWing, but the learning curve is very steep because 'getting
> started'
> > > > > guides are difficult to find.
> > > >
> > > > Are you referring to code or tools? Granted, code may be more
> > > > difficult without "getting started" guides, but tools are rather
> > > > easier. You can guess what it does by running it without any options
> > > > or /? or --help.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 9/5/06, hank williams < hank777 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > I agree with mark on this.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hank
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 9/5/06, Mark Winterhalder < mark13 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > Yes, the Flash IDE makes it much easier to understand the
> > principles
> > > > > > > we consider basic -- after all, you've got them visually in
> front
> > of
> > > > > > > you, can experiment with MovieClip hierarchies easily, and so
> on.
> > But
> > > > > > > it's not always an option, and not always necessary.
> > > > > > > I don't see the osflash projects as a mere extension to the
> Adobe
> > > > > > > tools. Depending on what you want to do and what kind of
> > background
> > > > > > > you have, they can be a true alternative. In any case, whe
> > shouldn't
> > > > > > > lock out developers without a "classical" Flash background.
> > > > > > > Of course every prominent developer started with the Flash IDE
> --
> > > > > > > until recently there was no viable alternative if you wanted
> to
> > > > > > > produce an SWF. Well, thinking about it, I don't know if you
> > consider
> > > > > > > Daniel prominent, but if MTASC hadn't given him the
> opportunity to
> > > > > > > create SWFs on Linux, he wouldn't have gotten into it and
> wouldn't
> > > > > > > have come up with swfmill. His experience with the IDE is
> limited
> > to
> > > > > > > downloading the trial and then never using it because he
> didn't
> > like
> > > > > > > to reboot to Windows.
> > > > > > > What I'm trying to say is that we can only gain from opening
> up to
> > > > > > > developers from other backgrounds without insisting on them
> > learning
> > > > > > > it the classical way, just because "it was always done like
> that".
> > The
> > > > > > > threshold should be as low as possible.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mark
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 9/5/06, Ralf Bokelberg < ralf.bokelberg at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Hm, it was always my understanding, that osflash grew out of
> the
> > need
> > > > > > > > for tools, which Macromedia/Adobe couldn't oder didn't want
> to
> > > > > > > > provide. Naturally these tools are not for beginners. That's
> > what the
> > > > > > > > Flash ide is for. I think, if you never get your hands dirty
> in
> > the
> > > > > > > > Flash ide, you are missing something, esspecially as a
> beginner.
> > Every
> > > > > > > > prominent developer started with the flash ide. Remember,
> it's
> > not
> > > > > > > > that i want to sell the Flash ide. It's about learning and
> > > > > > > > understanding the whole concept of flash, eg. timelines,
> frames,
> > etc.
> > > > > > > > I think, if you never worked with the Flash ide, you'll
> never
> > > > > > > > understand Flash completely.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So the point is, people should start with the Flash ide, and
> if
> > they
> > > > > > > > encounter serious problems in their workflow, they should
> come
> > back to
> > > > > > > > osflash and see, what solutions are provided.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > > > Ralf.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > osflash mailing list
> > > > > > > osflash at osflash.org
> > > > > > >
> > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > osflash mailing list
> > > > > > osflash at osflash.org
> > > > > >
> > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > osflash mailing list
> > > > > osflash at osflash.org
> > > > >
> > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Ray Chuan
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > osflash mailing list
> > > > osflash at osflash.org
> > > > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > osflash at osflash.org
> > > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ICQ: 117662935
> > Skype: mastakaneda
> > _______________________________________________
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> > osflash at osflash.org
> > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Ray Chuan
>
> _______________________________________________
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> osflash at osflash.org
> http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org
>
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