[osflash] Disseminating OSFlash (was IDE mon amour, the poll results.)

Tue Sep 5 12:19:17 EDT 2006

plane-haxe.org

Well - still no statement of Aral ...

yours
Martin.

2006/9/5, Tim Scollick <tim.scollick at gmail.com>:
>
> It's funny how I felt compelled to write three paragraphs but Martin got
> the point across 10 times better with two short sentences and one well
> placed expletive.  Nice work, Martin.
>
> I guess the question to put to the community is whether OSFlash is a real
> platform or just a large collection of dynamite tools for Flash.  Maybe Haxe
> is the platform and the 'marketing' time would be better spent there.
>
>
> On 9/5/06, Ray Chuan <rctay89 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > On 9/5/06, Martin Heidegger <mastakaneda at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I would rather say something like: this. Fuck this looks more like
> > flash
> > > than everything on osflash.
> >
> > Point taken. No long list of osflash-hosted projects or info all over
> > the place.
> >
> > > yours
> > > Martin.
> > >
> > > 2006/9/5, Tim Scollick < tim.scollick at gmail.com >:
> > > >
> > > > Ray,
> > > >
> > > > I'm not saying that it's difficult to use OSFlash tools, I'm merely
> > > stating that lacking documentation that considers more than one
> > technology
> > > at a time (tools and code) creates a barrier to using the
> > tools.  Think
> > > about what Carlos' article about getting started did for OSFlash over
> > a year
> > > ago.  It was helpful because it gave you a step by step process to get
> >
> > > things running fast with MTASC, swfmill and ASDT.  But you have to go
> > off
> > > OSFlash to find it.
> > > >
> > > > Open source projects are generally more difficult to get going than
> > > commercial products and developers are accepting of that
> > fact.  However, the
> > > most successful OS projects do a great job at this 'getting started'
> > stuff
> > > (Haxe comes to mind).  Ruby on Rails isn't better than a lot of web
> > > frameworks.  It gets it's a lot of it's buzz because when you go to
> > the
> > > homepage, you can click one of three buttons to get started.  Twenty
> > minutes
> > > later, you're at hello world.
> > > >
> > > > I just thought of this now, but maybe OSFlash needs a page like this
> > > linked from a big icon on the main OSFlash page.  What do you guys
> > think?
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Tim
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 9/5/06, Ray Chuan < rctay89 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > On 9/5/06, Tim Scollick < tim.scollick at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > I'm also in this boat, Ralf.  Look at how many java developers
> > are
> > > piling on
> > > > > > Flex, most of whom have never learned the Flash IDE.  You could
> > do the
> > > same
> > > > > > thing now with OSFlash tools (ASDT or FlashDevelop) and
> > ActionStep or
> > > > > > ASWing, but the learning curve is very steep because 'getting
> > started'
> > > > > > guides are difficult to find.
> > > > >
> > > > > Are you referring to code or tools? Granted, code may be more
> > > > > difficult without "getting started" guides, but tools are rather
> > > > > easier. You can guess what it does by running it without any
> > options
> > > > > or /? or --help.
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 9/5/06, hank williams < hank777 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > I agree with mark on this.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hank
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 9/5/06, Mark Winterhalder < mark13 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Yes, the Flash IDE makes it much easier to understand the
> > > principles
> > > > > > > > we consider basic -- after all, you've got them visually in
> > front
> > > of
> > > > > > > > you, can experiment with MovieClip hierarchies easily, and
> > so on.
> > > But
> > > > > > > > it's not always an option, and not always necessary.
> > > > > > > > I don't see the osflash projects as a mere extension to the
> > Adobe
> > > > > > > > tools. Depending on what you want to do and what kind of
> > > background
> > > > > > > > you have, they can be a true alternative. In any case, whe
> > > shouldn't
> > > > > > > > lock out developers without a "classical" Flash background.
> > > > > > > > Of course every prominent developer started with the Flash
> > IDE --
> > > > > > > > until recently there was no viable alternative if you wanted
> > to
> > > > > > > > produce an SWF. Well, thinking about it, I don't know if you
> >
> > > consider
> > > > > > > > Daniel prominent, but if MTASC hadn't given him the
> > opportunity to
> > > > > > > > create SWFs on Linux, he wouldn't have gotten into it and
> > wouldn't
> > > > > > > > have come up with swfmill. His experience with the IDE is
> > limited
> > > to
> > > > > > > > downloading the trial and then never using it because he
> > didn't
> > > like
> > > > > > > > to reboot to Windows.
> > > > > > > > What I'm trying to say is that we can only gain from opening
> > up to
> > > > > > > > developers from other backgrounds without insisting on them
> > > learning
> > > > > > > > it the classical way, just because "it was always done like
> > that".
> > > The
> > > > > > > > threshold should be as low as possible.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mark
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On 9/5/06, Ralf Bokelberg < ralf.bokelberg at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Hm, it was always my understanding, that osflash grew out
> > of the
> > > need
> > > > > > > > > for tools, which Macromedia/Adobe couldn't oder didn't
> > want to
> > > > > > > > > provide. Naturally these tools are not for beginners.
> > That's
> > > what the
> > > > > > > > > Flash ide is for. I think, if you never get your hands
> > dirty in
> > > the
> > > > > > > > > Flash ide, you are missing something, esspecially as a
> > beginner.
> > > Every
> > > > > > > > > prominent developer started with the flash ide. Remember,
> > it's
> > > not
> > > > > > > > > that i want to sell the Flash ide. It's about learning and
> > > > > > > > > understanding the whole concept of flash, eg. timelines,
> > frames,
> > > etc.
> > > > > > > > > I think, if you never worked with the Flash ide, you'll
> > never
> > > > > > > > > understand Flash completely.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So the point is, people should start with the Flash ide,
> > and if
> > > they
> > > > > > > > > encounter serious problems in their workflow, they should
> > come
> > > back to
> > > > > > > > > osflash and see, what solutions are provided.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > > > > Ralf.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > osflash mailing list
> > > > > > > > osflash at osflash.org
> > > > > > > >
> > > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > osflash mailing list
> > > > > > > osflash at osflash.org
> > > > > > >
> > > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > osflash mailing list
> > > > > > osflash at osflash.org
> > > > > >
> > > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > Ray Chuan
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > osflash mailing list
> > > > > osflash at osflash.org
> > > > > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > osflash mailing list
> > > > osflash at osflash.org
> > > > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > ICQ: 117662935
> > > Skype: mastakaneda
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > osflash mailing list
> > > osflash at osflash.org
> > > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Cheers,
> > Ray Chuan
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > osflash mailing list
> > osflash at osflash.org
> > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> osflash mailing list
> osflash at osflash.org
> http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/osflash_osflash.org
>
>
>

-- 
ICQ: 117662935
Skype: mastakaneda
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