[Papervision3D] R: Games and stories
John Grden
neoriley at gmail.com
Wed Dec 27 11:56:49 EST 2006
I agree with what you've said here Trevor. What I had said earlier is
pretty well spelled out more explicitly here.
I think a first person engine with game play in mind first is probably the
better of the 2 choices. Why?
1. keeps the developers interested if they can actually play what they're
creating. Eye candy gets old quickly, but a kick-ass rocket launcher, that
works really well, never gets old ;)
2. it's still a show case piece for PV3D.
3. It shows the strength of PV3D's abilities in a real world application in
as far as games go.
I like the idea of creating a base engine that can have mods applied as well
as custom level editing. If it could be something viral and
compartmentalized, Trevor has a point that the interest level can have some
real staying power. If done correctly, we could create something very
accessible and viral indeed.
for the first time, 3D game mod/level development will be nearly at the
level of Flashers rather than qualified 3D specialists or the 1 in 10,000
that learn how to use the level editors provided with online games. I
realize this is a really lofty idea, but one that I think many of us have
shared probably for a long time.
On 12/27/06, Trevor <trevor at flash-monkey.com> wrote:
>
> While a shooter is a cool way to showcase the engine's capabilities
> something like that's a big project - as exciting as it sounds is it
> realistic at this point to think that a bunch of developers spread around
> the world and donating their spare time could really complete a project
> like
> that to a high standard....?
>
> ...i'd like to think so but I've started too many things that I've not
> finished...
>
> Im my humble opinion I think the best way of attempting something like
> this
> would be to have a separate place to collect everyone's
> thoughts/ideas/suggestions/rants on the subject (so we can keep this list
> free for purely P3D stuff) and for a couple of people to sift through them
> and prepare a design document with the core of a solid game in there and a
> decent framework for adding bells & whistles later on down the line...
> then
> we can all sign up for the sections we'd like to work on and perhaps
> slowly,
> over time we'll get a result.
>
> Also, are we talking about making a game using P3D or a showcase for P3D?
> I'm sure most people's answer to that would be 'both' but think about it
> for
> a moment, if we make a game then the focus is on gameplay rather than
> getting as many polys on screen as possible. If we're making an
> interactive
> showcase for P3D then gameplay will inevitably take a backseat as more
> cool
> effects are included in each scene.
>
> Story is important in solo RPGs but again, but creating an RPG with plots
> and complex tasks and problems to solve increases the development time to
> what might well prove to be just too long.
>
> A first person shooter sound like a solid idea that's doable... we can
> create a decent back-story, solid graphics and a framework that will allow
> us to develop the game (add levels, new weapons/monsters/enemies/allies)
> etc
> once the Core of the game engine is written and working.
>
> It would be an interesting challenge to try and create a real-time
> multiplayer version especially using Red5 to keep it all open-source. But
> again, it's all in the planning (and testing, and retesting).
>
> The more thoroughly it's planned the more chance it has of success
> sometime
> before flash 10 is released...
>
> I don't want to sound like the boring voice of an old man who's passed his
> best (he he) cause I'd like this to succeed and I'd very much like to be a
> part of it... I'm happy to donate my time and webspace to help support
> such
> an exciting project -
>
> ...what's everyone's thoughts... Carlos?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Papervision3D-bounces at osflash.org
> [mailto:Papervision3D-bounces at osflash.org] On Behalf Of Davide Beltrame
> Sent: 27 December 2006 15:31
> To: Papervision3D at osflash.org
> Subject: [Papervision3D] R: Games and stories
>
> Right! Story is very important for an RPG!
> Btw, for translations / localized version, I can make English to Italian
> transposition of game options, story, etcetera :)
>
> Obviously this in addiction to the availability as "beta tester" ;)
>
> -----Messaggio originale-----
> Da: Papervision3D-bounces at osflash.org
> [mailto:Papervision3D-bounces at osflash.org] Per conto di fiver
> Inviato: mercoledì 27 dicembre 2006 16.24
> A: Papervision3D at osflash.org
> Oggetto: [Papervision3D] Games and stories
>
> Hey guys, I've been following the talk about game design and wanted to
> drop
> in my 2 cents. I
> looked at the shockwave skate game... impressive for a game that runs in
> the
> browser. It's a nice
> way to pass a little break time at work, but something like that doesn't
> seem to me to be worth
> the effort. Now, an RPG with multiplayer capabilities might be. But, with
> something like this,
> story is king. An awesome story makes it worth the effort I believe. And
> will also divert the
> attention from the flaws that doing something like this in Flash would
> introduce. Without the aide
> of hardware, it won't be Half-Life - The Lost Coast. Which is just fine --
> as long as the story
> kicks serious ass. I write fiction, so if you guys decide to do a game and
> need a story -- I'd
> love to help in that area.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Papervision3D-request at osflash.org wrote:
>
> > Send Papervision3D mailing list submissions to
> > Papervision3D at osflash.org
> >
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> > Papervision3D-owner at osflash.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Papervision3D digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: Papervision3D Digest, Vol 3, Issue 66 (Matthew Hare)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 09:56:26 +0000
> > From: "Matthew Hare" <matt.hare at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Papervision3D] Papervision3D Digest, Vol 3, Issue 66
> > To: Papervision3D at osflash.org
> > Message-ID:
> > <fb9cbdf70612270156m2e60b6dcpdc825c1840ef34d0 at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > I think adobe have 3D in mind already, but they wont talk about it at
> all.
> > Thats just the feeling i get from the "Flash on the Beach" conference
> and
> > having talked to a few of the bigger people in the picture, like Paul
> Betlam
> > (whose card i have somewhere, I've probably spelt his name wrong) and
> Mike
> > Downey.
> >
> > However, Flash is constantly evolving, so we just need to keep the
> lively
> > opensource support there, and we can adapt for whatever comes our way.
> >
> > I think Adobe would be very impressed with PV3D, they have a habit of
> hiring
> > the best Flash dev's to develop for the newest versions of Flash, so
> some
> of
> > you guys may find Adobe knocking on your doors if we can do many of the
> > things we want to do with it.
> >
> > Either way, there's a great core here.. so great things are going to
> happen
> > :)
> >
> >
> >
> > On 27/12/06, Papervision3D-request at osflash.org <
> > Papervision3D-request at osflash.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Send Papervision3D mailing list submissions to
> > > Papervision3D at osflash.org
> > >
> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
> > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > > Papervision3D-request at osflash.org
> > >
> > > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > > Papervision3D-owner at osflash.org
> > >
> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > > than "Re: Contents of Papervision3D digest..."
> > >
> > >
> > > Today's Topics:
> > >
> > > 1. Re: Sony first person shooter (ricardo cabello ! mr.doob)
> > > 2. Re: Sony first person shooter (John Grden)
> > > 3. R: Sony first person shooter (Davide Beltrame)
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 1
> > > Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 00:17:33 +0000
> > > From: "ricardo cabello ! mr.doob" <info at mrdoob.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [Papervision3D] Sony first person shooter
> > > To: Papervision3D at osflash.org
> > > Message-ID: <4591BB9D.8040602 at mrdoob.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> > >
> > > How many polys per frame was psx able to show? (at 24/30 fps?)
> > >
> > > Jake Lewis wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I believe Carlos developed for the original playstation, so he might
> > > > be more authoritative on this than I, but it does strike me that
> PV3D,
> > > > or more accurately, Flash 9 shares a few of the 'design choices' of
> > > > the PS1. Namely, a lack of perspective correction and a lack of
> > > > zbuffer. Most PS1 games managed to work around these limitations
> with
> > > > good game design and feasible environments. I'm not sure how the
> > > > polygon/pixel throughput compares, particularly considering that the
> > > > half frame PS1 screensize would look pretty small on today's hi def
> > > > computer screen.
> > > >
> > > > If I were at Sony, I might think about writing an emulator so that
> old
> > > > PS1games could be run over the web using a flash 3D client such as
> > > > PV3D. I did some work some years ago with a PC emulator of the PS1
> and
> > > > I can assure you it would be quite a formidable task, but once
> > > > accomplished would allow the entire back catalogue of PS1 titles,
> > > > tools etc to be redeployed on the web. I realize that Sony do not
> own
> > > > the rights to all the PS1 titles, but they published quite a few.
> I'm
> > > > sure there are many other titles out there that never got
> > > > finished/published/the attention they deserved, for which a last
> > > > flourish on the Web might be suitable. And there is always
> > > multiplayer...
> > > >
> > > > But I'm not at Sony, so I'd suggest the CDROM delivery of PS1 will
> > > > tend to produce bandwidth hungry titles - a low level emulator for
> a
> > > > first generation 3D cartridge system ( Nintendo was it?) might be a
> > > > bit easier on downloads.
> > > >
> > > > Although an interesting technical challenge, reproducing old content
> > > > isn't very creative.
> > > >
> > > > Yes I fully realize that this is all very wild speculation for a
> > > > system that is still in beta.
> > > >
> > > > Jake Lewis.
> > > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Papervision3D mailing list
> > > > Papervision3D at osflash.org
> > > > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 2
> > > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 18:51:40 -0500
> > > From: "John Grden" <neoriley at gmail.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [Papervision3D] Sony first person shooter
> > > To: Papervision3D at osflash.org
> > > Message-ID:
> > > <814c1ea20612261551mb6376b3se245b24712b5aab7 at mail.gmail.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > >
> > > man I'd really like to see if we could put a team together and see
> about
> > > how
> > > we might go about creating some games. With Carlos' and Jake's
> experience
> > > (
> > > I'm sure there are others as well ), I'd love to see what we could
> > > collectively put out and try.
> > >
> > > I don't know how feasible this is with everyone's time, but it sure
> would
> > > go
> > > along way in helping prove PV3D's abilities as well as help flush out
> > > other
> > > features needed.
> > >
> > > I'm sorry to come across so gung-ho on this stuff Carlos ;) I've just
> > > been
> > > starving for 3D in Flash for years now (as has everyone else) and I
> just
> > > know for a fact this could go along way in so many directions. One
> > > direction in particular (as I mentioned to Carlos) is to get adobe's
> > > attention to hopefully influence some 3D centric packages that might
> > > included with the player that would include methods specific to the
> number
> > > crunching that any 3D engine in Flash might have to use.
> > >
> > > Producing a large scale game/universe/immersion/website could
> certainly
> do
> > > that.
> > >
> > > On 12/26/06, Jake Lewis <jakelewis at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I believe Carlos developed for the original playstation, so he
> might
> be
> > > > more authoritative on this than I, but it does strike me that PV3D,
> or
> > > more
> > > > accurately, Flash 9 shares a few of the 'design choices' of the PS1.
> > > Namely,
> > > > a lack of perspective correction and a lack of zbuffer. Most PS1
> games
> > > > managed to work around these limitations with good game design and
> > > feasible
> > > > environments. I'm not sure how the polygon/pixel throughput
> compares,
> > > > particularly considering that the half frame PS1 screensize would
> look
> > > > pretty small on today's hi def computer screen.
> > > >
> > > > If I were at Sony, I might think about writing an emulator so that
> old
> > > > PS1games could be run over the web using a flash 3D client such as
> PV3D.
> > > I
> > > > did some work some years ago with a PC emulator of the PS1 and I can
> > > assure
> > > > you it would be quite a formidable task, but once accomplished would
> > > allow
> > > > the entire back catalogue of PS1 titles, tools etc to be redeployed
> on
> > > the
> > > > web. I realize that Sony do not own the rights to all the PS1
> titles,
> > > but
> > > > they published quite a few. I'm sure there are many other titles out
> > > there
> > > > that never got finished/published/the attention they deserved, for
> which
> > > a
> > > > last flourish on the Web might be suitable. And there is always
> > > > multiplayer...
> > > >
> > > > But I'm not at Sony, so I'd suggest the CDROM delivery of PS1 will
> tend
> > > > to produce bandwidth hungry titles - a low level emulator for a
> first
> > > > generation 3D cartridge system ( Nintendo was it?) might be a bit
> easier
> > > on
> > > > downloads.
> > > >
> > > > Although an interesting technical challenge, reproducing old content
> > > isn't
> > > > very creative.
> > > >
> > > > Yes I fully realize that this is all very wild speculation for a
> system
> > > > that is still in beta.
> > > >
> > > > Jake Lewis.
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Papervision3D mailing list
> > > > Papervision3D at osflash.org
> > > > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > [ JPG ]
> > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > URL:
> > >
> >
>
> http://osflash.org/pipermail/papervision3d_osflash.org/attachments/20061226/
> 17d28abb/attachment-0001.htm
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 3
> > > Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 10:42:09 +0100
> > > From: "Davide Beltrame" <info at brolyweb.com>
> > > Subject: [Papervision3D] R: Sony first person shooter
> > > To: <Papervision3D at osflash.org>
> > > Message-ID: <FBCMFE02B15vFCorX9B00009e08 at FBCMFE02B15.fbc.local>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > >
> > > Hi all people :-)
> > >
> > > I?m reading with lot of interest this mailing list and I see that lot
> of
> > > partecipant is good with 3D and/or Actionscript.
> > >
> > > Unlucky I?m not good with 3D?I?m a little good with AS (but not 3
> yet),
> > > but
> > > in this mail I want to tell that I?m available to use my free time in
> test
> > > and debug process of game or other applications that you should start
> with
> > > PV3D?so, I can?t be useful as developer or graphic, but I hope that a
> > > ?testing? collaboration would be useful anyway :-)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Good holidays to all ;)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Davide
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > Da: Papervision3D-bounces at osflash.org
> > > [mailto:Papervision3D-bounces at osflash.org] Per conto di John Grden
> > > Inviato: mercoled? 27 dicembre 2006 0.52
> > > A: Papervision3D at osflash.org
> > > Oggetto: Re: [Papervision3D] Sony first person shooter
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > man I'd really like to see if we could put a team together and see
> about
> > > how
> > > we might go about creating some games. With Carlos' and Jake's
> experience
> > > (
> > > I'm sure there are others as well ), I'd love to see what we could
> > > collectively put out and try.
> > >
> > > I don't know how feasible this is with everyone's time, but it sure
> would
> > > go
> > > along way in helping prove PV3D's abilities as well as help flush out
> > > other
> > > features needed.
> > >
> > > I'm sorry to come across so gung-ho on this stuff Carlos ;) I've just
> > > been
> > > starving for 3D in Flash for years now (as has everyone else) and I
> just
> > > know for a fact this could go along way in so many directions. One
> > > direction in particular (as I mentioned to Carlos) is to get adobe's
> > > attention to hopefully influence some 3D centric packages that might
> > > included with the player that would include methods specific to the
> number
> > > crunching that any 3D engine in Flash might have to use.
> > >
> > > Producing a large scale game/universe/immersion/website could
> certainly
> do
> > > that.
> > >
> > > On 12/26/06, Jake Lewis < <mailto:jakelewis at blueyonder.co.uk>
> > > jakelewis at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I believe Carlos developed for the original playstation, so he might
> be
> > > more
> > > authoritative on this than I, but it does strike me that PV3D, or more
> > > accurately, Flash 9 shares a few of the 'design choices' of the PS1.
> > > Namely,
> > > a lack of perspective correction and a lack of zbuffer. Most PS1 games
> > > managed to work around these limitations with good game design and
> > > feasible
> > > environments. I'm not sure how the polygon/pixel throughput compares,
> > > particularly considering that the half frame PS1 screensize would look
> > > pretty small on today's hi def computer screen.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If I were at Sony, I might think about writing an emulator so that old
> > > PS1games could be run over the web using a flash 3D client such as
> PV3D.
> I
> > > did some work some years ago with a PC emulator of the PS1 and I can
> > > assure
> > > you it would be quite a formidable task, but once accomplished would
> allow
> > > the entire back catalogue of PS1 titles, tools etc to be redeployed on
> the
> > > web. I realize that Sony do not own the rights to all the PS1 titles,
> but
> > > they published quite a few. I'm sure there are many other titles out
> there
> > > that never got finished/published/the attention they deserved, for
> which
> a
> > > last flourish on the Web might be suitable. And there is always
> > > multiplayer...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > But I'm not at Sony, so I'd suggest the CDROM delivery of PS1 will
> tend
> > > to
> > > produce bandwidth hungry titles - a low level emulator for a first
> > > generation 3D cartridge system ( Nintendo was it?) might be a bit
> easier
> > > on
> > > downloads.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Although an interesting technical challenge, reproducing old content
> isn't
> > > very creative.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes I fully realize that this is all very wild speculation for a
> system
> > > that
> > > is still in beta.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jake Lewis.
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Papervision3D mailing list
> > > Papervision3D at osflash.org
> > > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > [ JPG ]
> > >
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> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Papervision3D mailing list
> > > Papervision3D at osflash.org
> > > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
> > >
> > >
> > > End of Papervision3D Digest, Vol 3, Issue 66
> > > ********************************************
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> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Papervision3D mailing list
> > Papervision3D at osflash.org
> > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
> >
> >
> > End of Papervision3D Digest, Vol 3, Issue 67
> > ********************************************
> >
>
>
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