[Papervision3D] pv3d v2 VS away3d

Mon Jun 16 12:21:43 PDT 2008

Put your floor in a different scene and viewport below your main scene.
Then you won't have any sorting issues at all.  Use the same camera to
render both scenes :)

On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 2:02 PM, quinrou . <quinrou at gmail.com> wrote:

> what about when you have a floor/ground and all objects on that floor are
> affected by it. I had to increase the number of polygons on that floor to
> avoid the the z-sorting issue when it's not really necessary.
>
> At that point I am thinking it would be good to be able to set the floor on
> a seperat layer since we know it's always going to be at the bottom to avoid
> increasing its number of polygons. I read that is possible to do so with the
> effect branch through the renderlayer but I would rather stick with the
> "normal" GW.
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 6:21 PM, Carlos Lunetta <carlos.lunetta at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>  My take on that is to try the least polygons possible to have a scene
>> look good, textured and all.
>>
>> Find the "problem areas", go back to the 3d app, and subdivide/triangulate
>> just that part a bit more.
>>
>> Try again; if other problems appear, improve just that bit.
>>
>> I guess it's not a matter of increasing the polygon count of the overall
>> scene, just from the punctual issue areas.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> quinrou . wrote:
>>
>> John,
>>
>> what would be the tricks to apply to the model in order to fix z-sorting
>> issues.
>>
>> i noticed that the more polygons i have to my shapes the less the issues I
>> get. that means that the bigger the triangles the most likely the problem
>> will be.
>> the down fall of that is that it has an impact on the speed. it's the
>> catch 22 really. realism or speed.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 3:43 PM, John Grden <neoriley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> PV3D is about speed - bottom line.  z-sorting, as I've said before, can
>>> be handled in modeling phase, but of course, having the ability to correct
>>> at runtime is very cool for certain projects.  However, given the speed we
>>> deal with on a daily basis and given how hard of a hit the CPU takes when
>>> doing tessellation at runtime, I can hardly think of a use for it other than
>>> product shots.  personally, it falls in the same category as shaders - nice
>>> to have, but when would I realistically use it in a production app??
>>>
>>> That being said, we're working on a version of the engine that does
>>> tessellation at runtime, and our goal is and always has been to make it as
>>> fast as possible.  At the end of the day, with Flash being the player, it's
>>> about speed.  If I can fix my sorting issues at the modeling phase by hand,
>>> I'll do it every time to save on CPU.
>>>
>>> my 2cents.
>>>
>>> PS> the alternativa engine does have sorting issues if you know where to
>>> look - like I've said before, they did a great job on the MODEL as well as
>>> texturing.  Its a very smart, well done demo.  It's only when you stop that
>>> it adds more geometry to the scene to make it look more high rez that I
>>> could tell.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 8:42 AM, quinrou . <quinrou at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ryan thanks for the detail response, I appreciate it. I did look at the
>>>> alternativa engine but unfortunately it's not open source as yet. I was
>>>> indeed very impressed with their z-sorting which like you explained is
>>>> nicely handled by the face redrawing.
>>>>
>>>> Indeed you are right, PV3D is very good in term of effects and
>>>> interactivities. Which is why it was my library of choice when I started to
>>>> look at 3d libraries.
>>>>
>>>> thanks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 4:14 AM, Ryan Christensen [drawcode] <
>>>> ryan at drawcode.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Just an FYI due to the nature of the algorithms used to make 3d in
>>>>> flash fast, z-sorting is a major issue and will be as long as software
>>>>> rendering is around.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alternativa and Away seemed to have conquered this a bit better but
>>>>> there are lots of benefits to papervision (the away branch from papervision
>>>>> initially was influenced by the z sorting -- all it does really is at teh
>>>>> point of intersectin it makes lots more polys at the possible overlap points
>>>>> but again this is still faking out the issue - it also has some scalability
>>>>> problems if there are lots and lots of things overlapping).  Alternativa
>>>>> takes a similar approach onlyl redrawing polys on each view change (you can
>>>>> see this in their demos by hitting t for the geometry
>>>>> http://blog.alternativaplatform.com/ru/files/2008/04/bunker.swf --
>>>>> they constantly redraw triangles to optimize it for the view).  Papervision
>>>>> is the most known and largest community, it has lots of effects, interactive
>>>>> objects, and integrates well into lots of marketing online, doesn't have the
>>>>> optmizations for z ordering as much but again this can go back to how you
>>>>> architect it or what you are using it for.
>>>>>
>>>>>  It depends on what you are making really but no matter what the
>>>>> z-sorting issue is either an expensive (performance) situation and or an
>>>>> architectural problem in the way you are drawing.
>>>>>
>>>>>  There are ways to fake out the z issues with more polys but that also
>>>>> presents more problems.  There are also ways to float things above other
>>>>> things rather than drawing them right next to each other but this depends on
>>>>> yoru camera situations and zoom levels needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is one of those situational and almost religous choices it seems
>>>>> that is still being solved.
>>>>>
>>>>> This problem is not specific to flash but more to software rendered
>>>>> engines which Flash is.  The limit it seems is around 2000-3000 polys that
>>>>> can still run ok on older machines.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alternativa handles it the best it seems to me from a z standpoint but
>>>>> as far as the interactive objects, community and effects papervision is
>>>>> best.  Again it goes back to what you are creating...
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 1:09 PM, quinrou . <quinrou at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> i meant in term of functionalities/features
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have been messing with pv3d gw for a while and the most annoying
>>>>>> thing is the z-sorting issues I have experienced. so i was wondering if
>>>>>> wondering if away3d had the same problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would really appreciate if anyone could give feedback on pros and
>>>>>> cons.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 12:38 PM, Makc <makc.the.great at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the major difference is that pv3d is in the works, and away3d is
>>>>>>> released.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 9:55 AM, quinrou . <quinrou at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> > Hi all,
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > I was wondering if anyone had enough knowledge with the engine to
>>>>>>> be able to
>>>>>>> > tell me what are the major difference between the two. pros and
>>>>>>> cons?
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > thanks
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>  > _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  --
>>>>> --
>>>>> Ryan Christensen
>>>>> drawk.design and develop < drawk.com | drawcode.com >
>>>>> ryan - @ - drawk - dot - com - 480 . 612 . 4957
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>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>
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