[Papervision3D] is PV3D dead ?

Thu Oct 28 13:23:46 EDT 2010

and besides, who said we weren't invited to the party?  you assume too much.

On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 12:13 PM, nelson ramirez <nelson.alexander at gmail.com
> wrote:

> Wow PV3D guys. Way to sound petty and small.
> It's not unreasonable to expect tooling for molehill to come later on as a
> big selling point on CSx
> Releases.
> Just because you weren't invited to the party doesn't mean you can belittle
> the work of the guys who did.
>  On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 12:30 PM, tomsamson <blumenzuechter at gmx.de>wrote:
>
>> Dunno about the others, but all i said totally applies to the videos
>> showing the molehill demos and all info stated by Adobe on the stuff.
>> Adobe seems to not be a lot into integrating the new api for usage in
>> visual workflow in the ide, nor does it seem to be integrated with any of
>> the old languages/ apis, so old stuff still runs slow as always.
>> And yeah, even the nicest demos shown there are still years behind what
>> was doable in unity etc several years ago and is not close to being a match
>> for what other technologies allow doing now.
>> For example that race game demo, no realtime environment reflection, no
>> skidmarks, particle effects or anything really dynamic or moving besides the
>> car mostly.
>> Compare it to unreal citadel demo running on iPad to get what other
>> middleware is capable of even on way less powerful machines.
>> Not even to mention that it isn´t cross platform as in runs like that on
>> anything besides mac/ pc anytime soon and even for those it will probably
>> not be finalized and nicely usable for at least a year and then.
>> For example propper mobile support is touted so long by Adobe as if it was
>> already live in action anywhere.
>> How many Android devices can run flash right now and how many of those in
>> propper usable performance besides for the most basic 2D content?
>> I´m also wondering what Adobe thinks why people should buy Flash IDE
>> anymore if it doesn´t offer any visual editing support for most things
>> introduced api side since flash 7.
>> Nice people like the alternative guys create engines and frameworks "for
>> them" but yeah..
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 28, 2010, at 6:19 PM, Cédric Muller wrote:
>>
>> This whole thread doesn't take into account the latest molehill videos on
>> the web, does it ? Does it ? I am ... loosing focale :)
>>
>> If anyone missed these:
>>
>> http://jpauclair.net/2010/10/27/molehill/
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szaXvTsoeVs
>>
>> http://www.flashrealtime.com/max-racer-multiplayer/
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgwi0lWgX8w
>>
>> Cedric
>> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szaXvTsoeVs>
>>
>>  Well, John´s point was that its kinda useless when comparing what can be
>> done with flash regarding 3D with what can be done with other technologies.
>> Nice for flash terms, but yeah, more than 5 years behind other
>> technologies when compared to various other things.
>>
>> On Oct 28, 2010, at 6:05 PM, nospam at therossman.org wrote:
>>
>>
>> "So when I hear about "incredible demo's" from away, I think kudo's to
>> those guys for their talent for sure, but I have to ask - *why*?  It's
>> pointless."
>>
>> Uh, it's hardly pointless dude, with Away3DLite they have way more poly's
>> rendered than PV3D could ever support.  While PV3D dev stopped, Away team
>> kept moving forward, adding useful stuff for people, improving
>> performance, etc.  If you don't find it useful that's fine but their work
>> can't just be dismissed like that.
>>
>> They also added BSP which runs at good speed in the browser, as a matter
>> of fact.
>>
>> Then when the new 3d hardware acceleration comes from Adobe they just have
>> to change the underlying code to support that and we can just keep using
>> it and enjoy the new speed.
>>
>> If PV3D team chose to stop working on the framework, that's fine, but to
>> disparage/be dismissive of the amazing work the other teams are doing is
>> sorta crazy.
>>
>>
>>
>> In all honesty, we'd love to see PV3D continue to be developed.  We
>>
>> stopped
>>
>> because the new 3D api from adobe wasn't giving us anything that provided
>>
>> a
>>
>> better experience over what we already had.  There were no speed increases
>>
>> or anything magical.   Just an API.
>>
>>
>> Until adobe makes the experience with PB seamless (ie: AS3 api leverages
>>
>> PB
>>
>> and at the same speeds), it's just a toy for the few.
>>
>>
>> So, with that, we didn't see much point in just rewriting PV3D for the
>>
>> sake
>>
>> of a new api that didn't give us any benefit.  That and being
>>
>> disenfranchised by adobe's lack of support for hardware is just a killer
>>
>> to
>>
>> the moral.
>>
>>
>> I've moved on to products that actually allow me to leverage all of my
>>
>> experience with PV3D/AS3 - Unity3D being one of them.  They're about
>>
>> 5-7yrs
>>
>> ahead of adobe right now with regards to a 3D browser based plugin for 3D.
>>
>> Not to mention you can create for many different platforms of course.
>>
>>
>> I think the final straw for me was when I realized I was able to do 10x's
>>
>> more on an *IPHONE* with Unity3D than in a browser with flash.
>>
>> It's unbelievable the lack of power you deal with when you're doing 3D
>>
>> flash - it's a joke.  Thing is, you don't know about the joke until you
>>
>> step
>>
>> out and experience something else.  So when I hear about "incredible
>>
>> demo's"
>>
>> from away, I think kudo's to those guys for their talent for sure, but I
>>
>> have to ask - *why*?  It's pointless.  It's like they're all dealing with
>>
>> a
>>
>> volkswagon - sure, you can put a kick-ass paint job on it, rims, stereo,
>>
>> but
>>
>> at the end of the day, guess what?!  it's still a freakin' volkswagon.
>>
>> You
>>
>> can't change the engine, you can't change the tranny - it's still a
>>
>> volkswagon.
>>
>>
>> If the flash player changes, I'm sure PV3D will leverage it.  It may not
>>
>> have the rims/tires/paint/stereo system that other engines have right now,
>>
>> but it's fast, reliable and has a great and easy to understand API.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 10:26 AM, Makc <makc.the.great at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Ralph took PVX with him when he left the team.
>>
>> Last known papervision is PV3 on github, which is not updated for almost
>>
>> a
>>
>> year.
>>
>>
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