[Papervision3D] is PV3D dead ?

Thu Oct 28 13:36:45 EDT 2010

Just take John up on his challenge and download the Unity ide to
build/deploy a couple hello world examples. That's the bar Adobe has to
beat. It's a very high bar.
On 28 Oct 2010 10:26, "John Grden" <john at infrared5.com> wrote:
> and besides, who said we weren't invited to the party? you assume too
much.
>
> On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 12:13 PM, nelson ramirez <
nelson.alexander at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>
>> Wow PV3D guys. Way to sound petty and small.
>> It's not unreasonable to expect tooling for molehill to come later on as
a
>> big selling point on CSx
>> Releases.
>> Just because you weren't invited to the party doesn't mean you can
belittle
>> the work of the guys who did.
>> On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 12:30 PM, tomsamson <blumenzuechter at gmx.de>wrote:
>>
>>> Dunno about the others, but all i said totally applies to the videos
>>> showing the molehill demos and all info stated by Adobe on the stuff.
>>> Adobe seems to not be a lot into integrating the new api for usage in
>>> visual workflow in the ide, nor does it seem to be integrated with any
of
>>> the old languages/ apis, so old stuff still runs slow as always.
>>> And yeah, even the nicest demos shown there are still years behind what
>>> was doable in unity etc several years ago and is not close to being a
match
>>> for what other technologies allow doing now.
>>> For example that race game demo, no realtime environment reflection, no
>>> skidmarks, particle effects or anything really dynamic or moving besides
the
>>> car mostly.
>>> Compare it to unreal citadel demo running on iPad to get what other
>>> middleware is capable of even on way less powerful machines.
>>> Not even to mention that it isn´t cross platform as in runs like that on
>>> anything besides mac/ pc anytime soon and even for those it will
probably
>>> not be finalized and nicely usable for at least a year and then.
>>> For example propper mobile support is touted so long by Adobe as if it
was
>>> already live in action anywhere.
>>> How many Android devices can run flash right now and how many of those
in
>>> propper usable performance besides for the most basic 2D content?
>>> I´m also wondering what Adobe thinks why people should buy Flash IDE
>>> anymore if it doesn´t offer any visual editing support for most things
>>> introduced api side since flash 7.
>>> Nice people like the alternative guys create engines and frameworks "for
>>> them" but yeah..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 28, 2010, at 6:19 PM, Cédric Muller wrote:
>>>
>>> This whole thread doesn't take into account the latest molehill videos
on
>>> the web, does it ? Does it ? I am ... loosing focale :)
>>>
>>> If anyone missed these:
>>>
>>> http://jpauclair.net/2010/10/27/molehill/
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szaXvTsoeVs
>>>
>>> http://www.flashrealtime.com/max-racer-multiplayer/
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgwi0lWgX8w
>>>
>>> Cedric
>>> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szaXvTsoeVs>
>>>
>>> Well, John´s point was that its kinda useless when comparing what can be
>>> done with flash regarding 3D with what can be done with other
technologies.
>>> Nice for flash terms, but yeah, more than 5 years behind other
>>> technologies when compared to various other things.
>>>
>>> On Oct 28, 2010, at 6:05 PM, nospam at therossman.org wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "So when I hear about "incredible demo's" from away, I think kudo's to
>>> those guys for their talent for sure, but I have to ask - *why*? It's
>>> pointless."
>>>
>>> Uh, it's hardly pointless dude, with Away3DLite they have way more
poly's
>>> rendered than PV3D could ever support. While PV3D dev stopped, Away team
>>> kept moving forward, adding useful stuff for people, improving
>>> performance, etc. If you don't find it useful that's fine but their work
>>> can't just be dismissed like that.
>>>
>>> They also added BSP which runs at good speed in the browser, as a matter
>>> of fact.
>>>
>>> Then when the new 3d hardware acceleration comes from Adobe they just
have
>>> to change the underlying code to support that and we can just keep using
>>> it and enjoy the new speed.
>>>
>>> If PV3D team chose to stop working on the framework, that's fine, but to
>>> disparage/be dismissive of the amazing work the other teams are doing is
>>> sorta crazy.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In all honesty, we'd love to see PV3D continue to be developed. We
>>>
>>> stopped
>>>
>>> because the new 3D api from adobe wasn't giving us anything that
provided
>>>
>>> a
>>>
>>> better experience over what we already had. There were no speed
increases
>>>
>>> or anything magical. Just an API.
>>>
>>>
>>> Until adobe makes the experience with PB seamless (ie: AS3 api leverages
>>>
>>> PB
>>>
>>> and at the same speeds), it's just a toy for the few.
>>>
>>>
>>> So, with that, we didn't see much point in just rewriting PV3D for the
>>>
>>> sake
>>>
>>> of a new api that didn't give us any benefit. That and being
>>>
>>> disenfranchised by adobe's lack of support for hardware is just a killer
>>>
>>> to
>>>
>>> the moral.
>>>
>>>
>>> I've moved on to products that actually allow me to leverage all of my
>>>
>>> experience with PV3D/AS3 - Unity3D being one of them. They're about
>>>
>>> 5-7yrs
>>>
>>> ahead of adobe right now with regards to a 3D browser based plugin for
3D.
>>>
>>> Not to mention you can create for many different platforms of course.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think the final straw for me was when I realized I was able to do
10x's
>>>
>>> more on an *IPHONE* with Unity3D than in a browser with flash.
>>>
>>> It's unbelievable the lack of power you deal with when you're doing 3D
>>>
>>> flash - it's a joke. Thing is, you don't know about the joke until you
>>>
>>> step
>>>
>>> out and experience something else. So when I hear about "incredible
>>>
>>> demo's"
>>>
>>> from away, I think kudo's to those guys for their talent for sure, but I
>>>
>>> have to ask - *why*? It's pointless. It's like they're all dealing with
>>>
>>> a
>>>
>>> volkswagon - sure, you can put a kick-ass paint job on it, rims, stereo,
>>>
>>> but
>>>
>>> at the end of the day, guess what?! it's still a freakin' volkswagon.
>>>
>>> You
>>>
>>> can't change the engine, you can't change the tranny - it's still a
>>>
>>> volkswagon.
>>>
>>>
>>> If the flash player changes, I'm sure PV3D will leverage it. It may not
>>>
>>> have the rims/tires/paint/stereo system that other engines have right
now,
>>>
>>> but it's fast, reliable and has a great and easy to understand API.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 10:26 AM, Makc <makc.the.great at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Ralph took PVX with him when he left the team.
>>>
>>> Last known papervision is PV3 on github, which is not updated for almost
>>>
>>> a
>>>
>>> year.
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>> [ JPG ]
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>>
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>
>
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