I agree with what you've said here Trevor. What I had said earlier is pretty well spelled out more explicitly here.<br><br>I think a first person engine with game play in mind first is probably the better of the 2 choices. Why?
<br><br>1. keeps the developers interested if they can actually play what they're creating. Eye candy gets old quickly, but a kick-ass rocket launcher, that works really well, never gets old ;)<br>2. it's still a show case piece for PV3D.
<br>3. It shows the strength of PV3D's abilities in a real world application in as far as games go.<br><br>I like the idea of creating a base engine that can have mods applied as well as custom level editing. If it could be something viral and compartmentalized, Trevor has a point that the interest level can have some real staying power. If done correctly, we could create something very accessible and viral indeed.
<br><br>for the first time, 3D game mod/level development will be nearly at the level of Flashers rather than qualified 3D specialists or the 1 in 10,000 that learn how to use the level editors provided with online games. I realize this is a really lofty idea, but one that I think many of us have shared probably for a long time.
<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 12/27/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">Trevor</b> <<a href="mailto:trevor@flash-monkey.com">trevor@flash-monkey.com</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
While a shooter is a cool way to showcase the engine's capabilities<br>something like that's a big project - as exciting as it sounds is it<br>realistic at this point to think that a bunch of developers spread around
<br>the world and donating their spare time could really complete a project like<br>that to a high standard....?<br><br>...i'd like to think so but I've started too many things that I've not<br>finished...<br>
<br>Im my humble opinion I think the best way of attempting something like this<br>would be to have a separate place to collect everyone's<br>thoughts/ideas/suggestions/rants on the subject (so we can keep this list<br>
free for purely P3D stuff) and for a couple of people to sift through them<br>and prepare a design document with the core of a solid game in there and a<br>decent framework for adding bells & whistles later on down the line... then
<br>we can all sign up for the sections we'd like to work on and perhaps slowly,<br>over time we'll get a result.<br><br>Also, are we talking about making a game using P3D or a showcase for P3D?<br>I'm sure most people's answer to that would be 'both' but think about it for
<br>a moment, if we make a game then the focus is on gameplay rather than<br>getting as many polys on screen as possible. If we're making an interactive<br>showcase for P3D then gameplay will inevitably take a backseat as more cool
<br>effects are included in each scene.<br><br>Story is important in solo RPGs but again, but creating an RPG with plots<br>and complex tasks and problems to solve increases the development time to<br>what might well prove to be just too long.
<br><br>A first person shooter sound like a solid idea that's doable... we can<br>create a decent back-story, solid graphics and a framework that will allow<br>us to develop the game (add levels, new weapons/monsters/enemies/allies) etc
<br>once the Core of the game engine is written and working.<br><br>It would be an interesting challenge to try and create a real-time<br>multiplayer version especially using Red5 to keep it all open-source. But<br>again, it's all in the planning (and testing, and retesting).
<br><br>The more thoroughly it's planned the more chance it has of success sometime<br>before flash 10 is released...<br><br>I don't want to sound like the boring voice of an old man who's passed his<br>best (he he) cause I'd like this to succeed and I'd very much like to be a
<br>part of it... I'm happy to donate my time and webspace to help support such<br>an exciting project -<br><br>...what's everyone's thoughts... Carlos?<br><br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a href="mailto:Papervision3D-bounces@osflash.org">
Papervision3D-bounces@osflash.org</a><br>[mailto:<a href="mailto:Papervision3D-bounces@osflash.org">Papervision3D-bounces@osflash.org</a>] On Behalf Of Davide Beltrame<br>Sent: 27 December 2006 15:31<br>To: <a href="mailto:Papervision3D@osflash.org">
Papervision3D@osflash.org</a><br>Subject: [Papervision3D] R: Games and stories<br><br>Right! Story is very important for an RPG!<br>Btw, for translations / localized version, I can make English to Italian<br>transposition of game options, story, etcetera :)
<br><br>Obviously this in addiction to the availability as "beta tester" ;)<br><br>-----Messaggio originale-----<br>Da: <a href="mailto:Papervision3D-bounces@osflash.org">Papervision3D-bounces@osflash.org</a><br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:Papervision3D-bounces@osflash.org">Papervision3D-bounces@osflash.org</a>] Per conto di fiver<br>Inviato: mercoledì 27 dicembre 2006 16.24<br>A: <a href="mailto:Papervision3D@osflash.org">Papervision3D@osflash.org
</a><br>Oggetto: [Papervision3D] Games and stories<br><br>Hey guys, I've been following the talk about game design and wanted to drop<br>in my 2 cents. I<br>looked at the shockwave skate game... impressive for a game that runs in the
<br>browser. It's a nice<br>way to pass a little break time at work, but something like that doesn't<br>seem to me to be worth<br>the effort. Now, an RPG with multiplayer capabilities might be. But, with<br>something like this,
<br>story is king. An awesome story makes it worth the effort I believe. And<br>will also divert the<br>attention from the flaws that doing something like this in Flash would<br>introduce. Without the aide<br>of hardware, it won't be Half-Life - The Lost Coast. Which is just fine --
<br>as long as the story<br>kicks serious ass. I write fiction, so if you guys decide to do a game and<br>need a story -- I'd<br>love to help in that area.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br>--- <a href="mailto:Papervision3D-request@osflash.org">
Papervision3D-request@osflash.org</a> wrote:<br><br>> Send Papervision3D mailing list submissions to<br>> <a href="mailto:Papervision3D@osflash.org">Papervision3D@osflash.org</a><br>><br>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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<br>> <a href="mailto:Papervision3D-request@osflash.org">Papervision3D-request@osflash.org</a><br>><br>> You can reach the person managing the list at<br>> <a href="mailto:Papervision3D-owner@osflash.org">
Papervision3D-owner@osflash.org</a><br>><br>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>> than "Re: Contents of Papervision3D digest..."<br>><br>><br>> Today's Topics:
<br>><br>> 1. Re: Papervision3D Digest, Vol 3, Issue 66 (Matthew Hare)<br>><br>><br>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>><br>> Message: 1<br>> Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 09:56:26 +0000
<br>> From: "Matthew Hare" <<a href="mailto:matt.hare@gmail.com">matt.hare@gmail.com</a>><br>> Subject: Re: [Papervision3D] Papervision3D Digest, Vol 3, Issue 66<br>> To: <a href="mailto:Papervision3D@osflash.org">
Papervision3D@osflash.org</a><br>> Message-ID:<br>> <<a href="mailto:fb9cbdf70612270156m2e60b6dcpdc825c1840ef34d0@mail.gmail.com">fb9cbdf70612270156m2e60b6dcpdc825c1840ef34d0@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
<br>><br>> I think adobe have 3D in mind already, but they wont talk about it at all.<br>> Thats just the feeling i get from the "Flash on the Beach" conference and<br>> having talked to a few of the bigger people in the picture, like Paul
<br>Betlam<br>> (whose card i have somewhere, I've probably spelt his name wrong) and Mike<br>> Downey.<br>><br>> However, Flash is constantly evolving, so we just need to keep the lively<br>> opensource support there, and we can adapt for whatever comes our way.
<br>><br>> I think Adobe would be very impressed with PV3D, they have a habit of<br>hiring<br>> the best Flash dev's to develop for the newest versions of Flash, so some<br>of<br>> you guys may find Adobe knocking on your doors if we can do many of the
<br>> things we want to do with it.<br>><br>> Either way, there's a great core here.. so great things are going to<br>happen<br>> :)<br>><br>><br>><br>> On 27/12/06, <a href="mailto:Papervision3D-request@osflash.org">
Papervision3D-request@osflash.org</a> <<br>> <a href="mailto:Papervision3D-request@osflash.org">Papervision3D-request@osflash.org</a>> wrote:<br>> ><br>> > Send Papervision3D mailing list submissions to
<br>> > <a href="mailto:Papervision3D@osflash.org">Papervision3D@osflash.org</a><br>> ><br>> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>> > <a href="http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org">
http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org</a><br>> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>> > <a href="mailto:Papervision3D-request@osflash.org">Papervision3D-request@osflash.org
</a><br>> ><br>> > You can reach the person managing the list at<br>> > <a href="mailto:Papervision3D-owner@osflash.org">Papervision3D-owner@osflash.org</a><br>> ><br>> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
<br>> > than "Re: Contents of Papervision3D digest..."<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > Today's Topics:<br>> ><br>> > 1. Re: Sony first person shooter (ricardo cabello ! mr.doob)<br>
> > 2. Re: Sony first person shooter (John Grden)<br>> > 3. R: Sony first person shooter (Davide Beltrame)<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
<br>> ><br>> > Message: 1<br>> > Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 00:17:33 +0000<br>> > From: "ricardo cabello ! mr.doob" <<a href="mailto:info@mrdoob.com">info@mrdoob.com</a>><br>> > Subject: Re: [Papervision3D] Sony first person shooter
<br>> > To: <a href="mailto:Papervision3D@osflash.org">Papervision3D@osflash.org</a><br>> > Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4591BB9D.8040602@mrdoob.com">4591BB9D.8040602@mrdoob.com</a>><br>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
<br>> ><br>> > How many polys per frame was psx able to show? (at 24/30 fps?)<br>> ><br>> > Jake Lewis wrote:<br>> > ><br>> > > I believe Carlos developed for the original playstation, so he might
<br>> > > be more authoritative on this than I, but it does strike me that PV3D,<br>> > > or more accurately, Flash 9 shares a few of the 'design choices' of<br>> > > the PS1. Namely, a lack of perspective correction and a lack of
<br>> > > zbuffer. Most PS1 games managed to work around these limitations with<br>> > > good game design and feasible environments. I'm not sure how the<br>> > > polygon/pixel throughput compares, particularly considering that the
<br>> > > half frame PS1 screensize would look pretty small on today's hi def<br>> > > computer screen.<br>> > ><br>> > > If I were at Sony, I might think about writing an emulator so that old
<br>> > > PS1games could be run over the web using a flash 3D client such as<br>> > > PV3D. I did some work some years ago with a PC emulator of the PS1 and<br>> > > I can assure you it would be quite a formidable task, but once
<br>> > > accomplished would allow the entire back catalogue of PS1 titles,<br>> > > tools etc to be redeployed on the web. I realize that Sony do not own<br>> > > the rights to all the PS1 titles, but they published quite a few. I'm
<br>> > > sure there are many other titles out there that never got<br>> > > finished/published/the attention they deserved, for which a last<br>> > > flourish on the Web might be suitable. And there is always
<br>> > multiplayer...<br>> > ><br>> > > But I'm not at Sony, so I'd suggest the CDROM delivery of PS1 will<br>> > > tend to produce bandwidth hungry titles - a low level emulator for a
<br>> > > first generation 3D cartridge system ( Nintendo was it?) might be a<br>> > > bit easier on downloads.<br>> > ><br>> > > Although an interesting technical challenge, reproducing old content
<br>> > > isn't very creative.<br>> > ><br>> > > Yes I fully realize that this is all very wild speculation for a<br>> > > system that is still in beta.<br>> > ><br>> > > Jake Lewis.
<br>> > ><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> > ><br>> > > _______________________________________________<br>> > > Papervision3D mailing list
<br>> > > <a href="mailto:Papervision3D@osflash.org">Papervision3D@osflash.org</a><br>> > > <a href="http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org">http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
</a><br>> > ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > ------------------------------<br>> ><br>> > Message: 2<br>> > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 18:51:40 -0500<br>> > From: "John Grden" <
<a href="mailto:neoriley@gmail.com">neoriley@gmail.com</a>><br>> > Subject: Re: [Papervision3D] Sony first person shooter<br>> > To: <a href="mailto:Papervision3D@osflash.org">Papervision3D@osflash.org</a><br>
> > Message-ID:<br>> > <<a href="mailto:814c1ea20612261551mb6376b3se245b24712b5aab7@mail.gmail.com">814c1ea20612261551mb6376b3se245b24712b5aab7@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
<br>> ><br>> > man I'd really like to see if we could put a team together and see about<br>> > how<br>> > we might go about creating some games. With Carlos' and Jake's<br>experience<br>
> > (<br>> > I'm sure there are others as well ), I'd love to see what we could<br>> > collectively put out and try.<br>> ><br>> > I don't know how feasible this is with everyone's time, but it sure
<br>would<br>> > go<br>> > along way in helping prove PV3D's abilities as well as help flush out<br>> > other<br>> > features needed.<br>> ><br>> > I'm sorry to come across so gung-ho on this stuff Carlos ;) I've just
<br>> > been<br>> > starving for 3D in Flash for years now (as has everyone else) and I just<br>> > know for a fact this could go along way in so many directions. One<br>> > direction in particular (as I mentioned to Carlos) is to get adobe's
<br>> > attention to hopefully influence some 3D centric packages that might<br>> > included with the player that would include methods specific to the<br>number<br>> > crunching that any 3D engine in Flash might have to use.
<br>> ><br>> > Producing a large scale game/universe/immersion/website could certainly<br>do<br>> > that.<br>> ><br>> > On 12/26/06, Jake Lewis <<a href="mailto:jakelewis@blueyonder.co.uk">
jakelewis@blueyonder.co.uk</a>> wrote:<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > I believe Carlos developed for the original playstation, so he might<br>be<br>> > > more authoritative on this than I, but it does strike me that PV3D, or
<br>> > more<br>> > > accurately, Flash 9 shares a few of the 'design choices' of the PS1.<br>> > Namely,<br>> > > a lack of perspective correction and a lack of zbuffer. Most PS1 games
<br>> > > managed to work around these limitations with good game design and<br>> > feasible<br>> > > environments. I'm not sure how the polygon/pixel throughput compares,<br>> > > particularly considering that the half frame PS1 screensize would look
<br>> > > pretty small on today's hi def computer screen.<br>> > ><br>> > > If I were at Sony, I might think about writing an emulator so that old<br>> > > PS1games could be run over the web using a flash 3D client such as
<br>PV3D.<br>> > I<br>> > > did some work some years ago with a PC emulator of the PS1 and I can<br>> > assure<br>> > > you it would be quite a formidable task, but once accomplished would<br>
> > allow<br>> > > the entire back catalogue of PS1 titles, tools etc to be redeployed on<br>> > the<br>> > > web. I realize that Sony do not own the rights to all the PS1 titles,<br>> > but
<br>> > > they published quite a few. I'm sure there are many other titles out<br>> > there<br>> > > that never got finished/published/the attention they deserved, for<br>which<br>> > a<br>
> > > last flourish on the Web might be suitable. And there is always<br>> > > multiplayer...<br>> > ><br>> > > But I'm not at Sony, so I'd suggest the CDROM delivery of PS1 will
<br>tend<br>> > > to produce bandwidth hungry titles - a low level emulator for a first<br>> > > generation 3D cartridge system ( Nintendo was it?) might be a bit<br>easier<br>> > on<br>> > > downloads.
<br>> > ><br>> > > Although an interesting technical challenge, reproducing old content<br>> > isn't<br>> > > very creative.<br>> > ><br>> > > Yes I fully realize that this is all very wild speculation for a
<br>system<br>> > > that is still in beta.<br>> > ><br>> > > Jake Lewis.<br>> > ><br>> > > _______________________________________________<br>> > > Papervision3D mailing list
<br>> > > <a href="mailto:Papervision3D@osflash.org">Papervision3D@osflash.org</a><br>> > > <a href="http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org">http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
</a><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > --<br>> > [ JPG ]<br>> > -------------- next part --------------<br>> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
<br>> > URL:<br>> ><br>><br><a href="http://osflash.org/pipermail/papervision3d_osflash.org/attachments/20061226/">http://osflash.org/pipermail/papervision3d_osflash.org/attachments/20061226/</a><br>17d28abb/attachment-
0001.htm<br>> ><br>> > ------------------------------<br>> ><br>> > Message: 3<br>> > Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 10:42:09 +0100<br>> > From: "Davide Beltrame" <<a href="mailto:info@brolyweb.com">
info@brolyweb.com</a>><br>> > Subject: [Papervision3D] R: Sony first person shooter<br>> > To: <<a href="mailto:Papervision3D@osflash.org">Papervision3D@osflash.org</a>><br>> > Message-ID: <
<a href="mailto:FBCMFE02B15vFCorX9B00009e08@FBCMFE02B15.fbc.local">FBCMFE02B15vFCorX9B00009e08@FBCMFE02B15.fbc.local</a>><br>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>> ><br>> > Hi all people :-)
<br>> ><br>> > I?m reading with lot of interest this mailing list and I see that lot of<br>> > partecipant is good with 3D and/or Actionscript.<br>> ><br>> > Unlucky I?m not good with 3D?I?m a little good with AS (but not 3 yet),
<br>> > but<br>> > in this mail I want to tell that I?m available to use my free time in<br>test<br>> > and debug process of game or other applications that you should start<br>with<br>> > PV3D?so, I can?t be useful as developer or graphic, but I hope that a
<br>> > ?testing? collaboration would be useful anyway :-)<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > Good holidays to all ;)<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > Davide<br>> ><br>> >
<br>> ><br>> > _____<br>> ><br>> > Da: <a href="mailto:Papervision3D-bounces@osflash.org">Papervision3D-bounces@osflash.org</a><br>> > [mailto:<a href="mailto:Papervision3D-bounces@osflash.org">
Papervision3D-bounces@osflash.org</a>] Per conto di John Grden<br>> > Inviato: mercoled? 27 dicembre 2006 0.52<br>> > A: <a href="mailto:Papervision3D@osflash.org">Papervision3D@osflash.org</a><br>> > Oggetto: Re: [Papervision3D] Sony first person shooter
<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > man I'd really like to see if we could put a team together and see about<br>> > how<br>> > we might go about creating some games. With Carlos' and Jake's
<br>experience<br>> > (<br>> > I'm sure there are others as well ), I'd love to see what we could<br>> > collectively put out and try.<br>> ><br>> > I don't know how feasible this is with everyone's time, but it sure
<br>would<br>> > go<br>> > along way in helping prove PV3D's abilities as well as help flush out<br>> > other<br>> > features needed.<br>> ><br>> > I'm sorry to come across so gung-ho on this stuff Carlos ;) I've just
<br>> > been<br>> > starving for 3D in Flash for years now (as has everyone else) and I just<br>> > know for a fact this could go along way in so many directions. One<br>> > direction in particular (as I mentioned to Carlos) is to get adobe's
<br>> > attention to hopefully influence some 3D centric packages that might<br>> > included with the player that would include methods specific to the<br>number<br>> > crunching that any 3D engine in Flash might have to use.
<br>> ><br>> > Producing a large scale game/universe/immersion/website could certainly<br>do<br>> > that.<br>> ><br>> > On 12/26/06, Jake Lewis < <mailto:<a href="mailto:jakelewis@blueyonder.co.uk">
jakelewis@blueyonder.co.uk</a>><br>> > <a href="mailto:jakelewis@blueyonder.co.uk">jakelewis@blueyonder.co.uk</a>> wrote:<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > I believe Carlos developed for the original playstation, so he might be
<br>> > more<br>> > authoritative on this than I, but it does strike me that PV3D, or more<br>> > accurately, Flash 9 shares a few of the 'design choices' of the PS1.<br>> > Namely,<br>> > a lack of perspective correction and a lack of zbuffer. Most PS1 games
<br>> > managed to work around these limitations with good game design and<br>> > feasible<br>> > environments. I'm not sure how the polygon/pixel throughput compares,<br>> > particularly considering that the half frame PS1 screensize would look
<br>> > pretty small on today's hi def computer screen.<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > If I were at Sony, I might think about writing an emulator so that old<br>> > PS1games could be run over the web using a flash 3D client such as PV3D.
<br>I<br>> > did some work some years ago with a PC emulator of the PS1 and I can<br>> > assure<br>> > you it would be quite a formidable task, but once accomplished would<br>allow<br>> > the entire back catalogue of PS1 titles, tools etc to be redeployed on
<br>the<br>> > web. I realize that Sony do not own the rights to all the PS1 titles,<br>but<br>> > they published quite a few. I'm sure there are many other titles out<br>there<br>> > that never got finished/published/the attention they deserved, for which
<br>a<br>> > last flourish on the Web might be suitable. And there is always<br>> > multiplayer...<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > But I'm not at Sony, so I'd suggest the CDROM delivery of PS1 will tend
<br>> > to<br>> > produce bandwidth hungry titles - a low level emulator for a first<br>> > generation 3D cartridge system ( Nintendo was it?) might be a bit easier<br>> > on<br>> > downloads.
<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > Although an interesting technical challenge, reproducing old content<br>isn't<br>> > very creative.<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > Yes I fully realize that this is all very wild speculation for a system
<br>> > that<br>> > is still in beta.<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > Jake Lewis.<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > _______________________________________________<br>> > Papervision3D mailing list
<br>> > <a href="mailto:Papervision3D@osflash.org">Papervision3D@osflash.org</a><br>> > <a href="http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org">http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
</a><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > --<br>> > [ JPG ]<br>> ><br>> > -------------- next part --------------<br>> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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<br>> ><br>> > ------------------------------<br>> ><br>> > _______________________________________________<br>> > Papervision3D mailing list<br>> > <a href="mailto:Papervision3D@osflash.org">
Papervision3D@osflash.org</a><br>> > <a href="http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org">http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org</a><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > End of Papervision3D Digest, Vol 3, Issue 66
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<br>Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/604 - Release Date: 26/12/2006<br>12:23<br><br><br>--<br>No virus found in this outgoing message.<br>Checked by AVG Free Edition.<br>Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.28
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