<div>You've made a good point there, Ricky... i think many people on this list have been in that position... the concept is super-cool, the demos are awesome and then the client wades in and ruins it!</div>
<div> </div>
<div>especially with large organisations the decisions pass through many tiers of decision-makers, each person is eager to make a difference or just do something so they can say there were involved in that project or whatever and it gets watered down and down until it's just a shadow of it's former self... a friend of mine is an advertising copywriter and hits the same problems all the time... he writes great words and then some joker in middle-management who thinks he can write decides that changes have to be made....
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>... even so, the point is that Adobe should have chosen something that hadn't been through this process to showcase a product of theirs that has potential far outweighing what's been demostrated...</div>
<div> </div>
<div>T<br><br> </div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 9/28/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Johannes Nel</b> <<a href="mailto:johannes.nel@gmail.com">johannes.nel@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">haxe is not as3 it just targets the avm2. its a language on its own. mtasc is very fast, but it enforces certain syntactical differences (cleaner code mind you) than the flash IDE. (hence flags like -mx to support the v2 components or the fact that the component libraries like aswing written using the mtasc compiler did not compiled in the flash IDE - at least not last time i tested it)
<div><span class="e" id="q_1154d672e60386d5_1"><br><br><br>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 9/28/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Olivier Clément</b> <<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:multiple.paradox@gmail.com" target="_blank">multiple.paradox@gmail.com
</a>> wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<div>MTASC is an AS2 compiler, very efficient (way faster than Flash 8 built in compiler), mainly used with the Eclipse environment
<div><br> </div>
<div>For AS3 I think there's HAXE (<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://haxe.org/" target="_blank"> haxe.org</a> if my memory's good)</div>
<div><span>
<div><br> </div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On 07-09-28, at 14:19, Carlos Lunetta wrote:</div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">MTASC?<br><br>Johannes Nel wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">doh: AS2 has no external compiler<br><br>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 9/28/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Johannes Nel</b> <<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:johannes.nel@gmail.com" target="_blank"> johannes.nel@gmail.com
</a>> wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid"><br>Thats not a solid argument either. AS3 has no external compiler, you are bound to the Flash IDE -> read here all the lark about proper process lala --> i think its a moot point. I do not think it should be considered a show case for papaervision, but AS3 has a multitude of advantages in all spheres over AS2 when it comes to building a big site.
<br>You should know that from building something as complex as papervision!!
<div><span><br><br>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 9/28/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Carlos Ulloa</b> < <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:carlos@papervision3d.org" target="_blank">carlos@papervision3d.org
</a>> wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">I don't mean the site itself is disappointing, but as a showcase of AS3 it doesn't do a great job. Could be done in AS2 without much trouble.<br><br>C4
<div><span><br><br><br><br>Johannes Nel wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">how can you say that's disappointing. no its not an amazing use of papervision but the site itself has other good bits. its well designed around the video aspect, the art direction seems good and its a decent concept. there are better 3d sites but i think as a showcase piece its not bad from adobe as it combines lots of good concepts and an obviously large team.
<br><br><br><br>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 9/28/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Michael Neil</b> <<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:mneil@barbergroup.com" target="_blank"> mneil@barbergroup.com
</a>> wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<div lang="EN-US" bgcolor="white" vlink="purple" link="blue">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Wow, if that's the site it's pretty dissapointing. Very, very dissapointing.</font></div>
<div><span>
<blockquote style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><b>From:</b> <a title="michael.latzoni@gmail.com" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:michael.latzoni@gmail.com" target="_blank">
Michael Latzoni</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><b>To:</b> <a title="papervision3d@osflash.org" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:papervision3d@osflash.org" target="_blank">
papervision3d@osflash.org</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 28, 2007 10:04 AM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Papervision3D] Amazing</div>
<div><br> </div>
<div>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">Is this the big spaceship site they showed? <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://www.hbovoyeur.com/" target="_blank">http://www.hbovoyeur.com/
</a></span></p>
<div><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><br> </div>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">I am always amazed when I see the work that comes out of Japan. Love the stuff those guys do over there! Thanks for sharing the link Spiros. </span></p>
<div><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><br> </div>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">Mike</span></p>
<div><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><br> </div>
<div><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><br> </div>
<div><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><br> </div>
<div>
<div style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: rgb(181,196,223) 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<p><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext"> <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:papervision3d-bounces@osflash.org" target="_blank">
papervision3d-bounces@osflash.org</a> [mailto:<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:papervision3d-bounces@osflash.org" target="_blank">papervision3d-bounces@osflash.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Carlos Ulloa<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 28, 2007 6:57 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:papervision3d@osflash.org" target="_blank">papervision3d@osflash.org
</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Papervision3D] Amazing</span></p></div></div>
<div> <br> </div>
<p>Not sure it's out yet, it was Voyeur for HBO. It was supposed to demonstrate AS3 but it looks AS2. It was more video than 3D, the 3D part was pretty basic and the transition between 2D and 3D was crap. <br><br>C4<br>
<br> Spiros Gerokostas wrote: </p>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">the name of this site ?</p>
<div>
<p><span>On 9/28/07, <b>Carlos Ulloa</b> <<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:carlos@papervision3d.org" target="_blank"> carlos@papervision3d.org</a>> wrote:</span> </p>
<div>
<p>Just to clarify, I mean Adobe America, that brought big spaceship to their flashforward keynote to show a very disappointing PV3D site.<br><br>C4 </p>
<div>
<p><br><br><br><span>Carlos Ulloa wrote: </span><span></span></p>
<p>That's really cool that Adobe Japan pay attention to cool devs, instead of carrying on with the same big spaceshit like the americans do. <br><br>C4<br><br><br>Spiros Gerokostas wrote: </p>
<p><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://www.adobe.com/jp/events/cs3_web_edition_tour/page6.html" target="_blank">http://www.adobe.com/jp/events/cs3_web_edition_tour/page6.html </a><br><br>
from the guy behind <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://www.roxik.com/" target="_blank">www.roxik.com</a></p><pre style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><hr align="center" width="90%" size="4">
</pre><pre> </pre><pre>_______________________________________________</pre><pre>Papervision3D mailing list</pre><pre><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:Papervision3D@osflash.org" target="_blank">
Papervision3D@osflash.org</a></pre><pre> </pre><pre><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org" target="_blank">http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
<br></a>
</pre><pre> </pre>
<div> <br> </div><pre style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><hr align="center" width="90%" size="4"> </pre><pre> </pre><pre>_______________________________________________
</pre><pre>Papervision3D mailing list</pre><pre><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:Papervision3D@osflash.org" target="_blank">Papervision3D@osflash.org</a></pre><pre> </pre><pre><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org" target="_blank">
http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
<br></a>
</pre><pre> </pre>
<p><br><br></p></div></div>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><br>_______________________________________________<br>Papervision3D mailing list <br><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:Papervision3D@osflash.org" target="_blank">
Papervision3D@osflash.org</a><br><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org" target="_blank">http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
</a></p></div>
<p><br><br></p><pre> </pre><pre style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><hr align="center" width="90%" size="4">
</pre><pre> </pre><pre>_______________________________________________</pre><pre>Papervision3D mailing list</pre><pre><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:Papervision3D@osflash.org" target="_blank">
Papervision3D@osflash.org</a></pre><pre><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org" target="_blank">http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
<br></a>
</pre><pre> </pre>
<div> <br> </div></div>
<div><br> </div>
<hr>
_______________________________________________<br>Papervision3D mailing list<br><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:Papervision3D@osflash.org" target="_blank">Papervision3D@osflash.org
</a><br><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org" target="_blank">http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org </a><br>
</blockquote></span></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>Papervision3D mailing list<br><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:Papervision3D@osflash.org" target="_blank">
Papervision3D@osflash.org</a><br><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org" target="_blank">http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
</a><br><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>j:pn <br>\\no comment <pre><hr width="90%" size="4">_______________________________________________
<br>Papervision3D mailing list<br><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:Papervision3D@osflash.org" target="_blank">Papervision3D@osflash.org<br><br></a>
<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org" target="_blank">http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org</a>
</pre></blockquote><br></span></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>Papervision3D mailing list<br><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:Papervision3D@osflash.org" target="_blank">
Papervision3D@osflash.org </a><br><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org" target="_blank">http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
</a><br><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>j:pn <br>\\no comment </span></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>j:pn <br>\\no comment <pre><hr width="90%" size="4">
_______________________________________________<br>Papervision3D mailing list<br><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:Papervision3D@osflash.org" target="_blank">Papervision3D@osflash.org
</a>
<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org" target="_blank">http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org</a>
</pre></blockquote><br>
<div style="MARGIN: 0px">_______________________________________________</div>
<div style="MARGIN: 0px">Papervision3D mailing list</div>
<div style="MARGIN: 0px"><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:Papervision3D@osflash.org" target="_blank">Papervision3D@osflash.org</a></div>
<div style="MARGIN: 0px"><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org" target="_blank">http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
</a></div></blockquote></div><br> </div></span></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>Papervision3D mailing list<br><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:Papervision3D@osflash.org" target="_blank">
Papervision3D@osflash.org</a><br><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org" target="_blank">http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
</a><br><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>j:pn <br>\\no comment </span></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>Papervision3D mailing list<br><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:Papervision3D@osflash.org">
Papervision3D@osflash.org</a><br><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org" target="_blank">http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
</a><br><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Trevor Burton<br><a href="http://www.paperworld3d.com">http://www.paperworld3d.com</a>