[Red5] RTMP is patented by Adobe?

Mon Mar 10 16:30:23 PDT 2008

I just had pizza for lunch today to...go figure.  hehe,
Ben

Quoting Chris Allen <mrchrisallen at gmail.com>:

> LOL Ben.
>
> We might have to get you to write some documentation using the pizza
> analogy. ;)
>
> -Chris
>
> On Mar 10, 2008, at 9:27 AM, red5 at allwebnow.com wrote:
>
>> Yeah, i think the only way this patent (ie.
>> http://www.flashcomguru.com/index.cfm/2008/3/6/rtmp-patent)
>> will effect us is if the developers of RED5 go out and proclaim that
>> they are the inventors and the original developers of the RTMP
>> protocol and start selling red5 in the name of rtmp originality.  In
>> reality, the red5 developers are simply using the rtmp protocol to
>> develop out their own "original" and "FREE" version of a flash media
>> streaming server only.
>>
>> Here's a weird yet relevant scenario to help people understand...a
>> group of mechanics (red5 developers) build their very own car (red5)
>> using a patented "Toyota" engine (rtmp protocol) and then let a pizza
>> delivery guy (red5 user) use this homemade car to deliver pizzas
>> (streaming media).  That's Kinda the same thing the red5 community is
>> doing minus the oil and pizza.  lol!  Where do I come up with this
>> stuff???
>>
>> In other words...I think we're ok. ;)
>>
>> Ben
>>
>>
>> Quoting Steven Gong <steven.gong at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Hi Luke,
>>> Thank you for the history. :-)
>>>
>>> And I think it's now clear that patent won't affect us a bit.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 1:53 PM, Luke Hubbard <luke at codegent.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> Jumping into this thread a little late... I've been offline for
>>>> past few
>>>> days. There is one thing I would like to add to the discussion.
>>>>
>>>> Our work reverse engineering the protocol was kick started by some
>>>> information (see famous theAMF.pdf) provided to us by a really
>>>> nice guy
>>>> called Mick. He had created a commercial RTMP server way back in
>>>> the day,
>>>> even before Flash Communication Server 6 was released to the
>>>> public. I think
>>>> he said they captured the packets at some event where MM were
>>>> demoing the
>>>> server, then worked on decoding it ready for the public release of
>>>> flash 6
>>>> and FCS. That would put the date of the first 3rd party RTMP
>>>> server sometime
>>>> in 2002. If this patent even applies to Red5, wouldn't the
>>>> existence of
>>>> another RTMP server prior to the data the patent was granted be
>>>> prior art?
>>>>
>>>> - Luke
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3/8/08, Steven Gong <steven.gong at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The root page is http://osflash.org/red5/fud and you can find a
>>>>> suitable
>>>>> place to add your comments. Thank you for your effort to clarify
>>>> this Hank!
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 10:04 PM, hank williams <hank777 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 9:00 AM, Dominick Accattato <
>>>>>> daccattato at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hank,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can you add that to the FUD page for us?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sure, what is the URL?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mar 7, 2008, at 6:20 PM, Steven Gong wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 6:21 AM, Chris Allen <mrchrisallen at gmail.com
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would recommend reading Hank William's blog post on the
>>>>>>>> subject:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> http://whydoeseverythingsuck.com/2008/03/adobe-patents-media-server-technology.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Blog is not found? Anyway, I think Hank's comment makes sense in
>>>>>>> terms of the patent impact on us and I think we'd better put
>>>> the conclusion
>>>>>>> of the patent impact to the FUD page (currently it only
>>>> contains statements
>>>>>>> about reverse-engineering and I think patent should be a
>>>> different story) to
>>>>>>> make us free of uncertainty and doubt. What do you guys think?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Basically, no one can patent a protocol, just a system. In the
>>>>>>>> case of this patent, the system also requires a Media
>>>> Player, which Red5
>>>>>>>> does not have. We obviously are not interested in
>>>> recreating the Flash
>>>>>>>> player. I'm sure most would agree that doing so is way out
>>>> of the scope of
>>>>>>>> the project. ;-) Also, in terms of technology used, Red5 is
>>>> quite different
>>>>>>>> than FMS.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am of course interested in hearing other people's thoughts on
>>>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Chris
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mar 6, 2008, at 9:31 PM, Giovanni wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If patented, then red5 and others will be hugely impacted. how
>>>>>>>> could red5 be used without using the protocol?
>>>>>>>> But that could be expected. Now with h264, why would adobe give
>>>>>>>> away the farm for free?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The question would be if it the protocol can be licensed. If it
>>>>>>>> can be licensed, then the only path would be for the red5
>>>> team to obtain
>>>>>>>> such license.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No RTMP=NO FLASH CLIENT
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mar 6, 2008, at 6:08 PM, Steven Gong wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>> Take a look at this blog:
>>>>>>>> http://www.flashcomguru.com/index.cfm/2008/3/6/rtmp-patent
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Don't know what impact will be on us... Any lawyer here for
>>>>>>>> help?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Best Regards
>>>>>>>> Steven Gong
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> InfraRed5 Red5 Consultant: http://www.infrared5.com,
>>>>>>>> steven at infrared5.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Red5 Developer: http://osflash.org/red5,
>>>>>>>>
>>>> http://jira.red5.org/confluence/display/~steven/Home<http://jira.red5.org/confluence/display/%7Esteven/Home
>>>> >
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Javaflash Project Founder and Maintainer:
>>>>>>>> http://osflash.org/javaflash
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Modesty is an overrated quality in men of no great
>>>>>>>> accomplishment.
>>>>>>>> -- Ricky Jay _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Red5 mailing list
>>>>>>>> Red5 at osflash.org
>>>>>>>> http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/red5_osflash.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Red5 mailing list
>>>>>>>> Red5 at osflash.org
>>>>>>>> http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/red5_osflash.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Red5 mailing list
>>>>>>>> Red5 at osflash.org
>>>>>>>> http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/red5_osflash.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Best Regards
>>>>>>> Steven Gong
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> InfraRed5 Red5 Consultant: http://www.infrared5.com,
>>>>>>> steven at infrared5.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Red5 Developer: http://osflash.org/red5,
>>>>>>>
>>>> http://jira.red5.org/confluence/display/~steven/Home<http://jira.red5.org/confluence/display/%7Esteven/Home
>>>> >
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Javaflash Project Founder and Maintainer:
>>>>>>> http://osflash.org/javaflash
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Modesty is an overrated quality in men of no great
>>>>>>> accomplishment.
>>>>>>> -- Ricky Jay _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Red5 mailing list
>>>>>>> Red5 at osflash.org
>>>>>>> http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/red5_osflash.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Red5 mailing list
>>>>>>> Red5 at osflash.org
>>>>>>> http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/red5_osflash.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> -----------------------------------------
>>>>>> whydoeseverythingsuck.com
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Red5 mailing list
>>>>>> Red5 at osflash.org
>>>>>> http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/red5_osflash.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Best Regards
>>>>> Steven Gong
>>>>>
>>>>> InfraRed5 Red5 Consultant: http://www.infrared5.com,
>>>>> steven at infrared5.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Red5 Developer: http://osflash.org/red5,
>>>>>
>>>> http://jira.red5.org/confluence/display/~steven/Home<http://jira.red5.org/confluence/display/%7Esteven/Home
>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> Javaflash Project Founder and Maintainer: http://osflash.org/javaflash
>>>>>
>>>>> Modesty is an overrated quality in men of no great
>>>>> accomplishment.  --
>>>>> Ricky Jay
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Red5 mailing list
>>>>> Red5 at osflash.org
>>>>> http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/red5_osflash.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Luke Hubbard
>>>> codegent | coding for the people
>>>> http://www.codegent.com
>>>>
>>>> NMA Top 100 Interactive Agencies - Ones to watch!
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best Regards
>>> Steven Gong
>>>
>>> InfraRed5 Red5 Consultant: http://www.infrared5.com, steven at infrared5.com
>>>
>>> Red5 Developer: http://osflash.org/red5,
>>> http://jira.red5.org/confluence/display/~steven/Home
>>>
>>> Javaflash Project Founder and Maintainer: http://osflash.org/
>>> javaflash
>>>
>>> Modesty is an overrated quality in men of no great accomplishment.
>>> -- Ricky
>>> Jay
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Red5 mailing list
>> Red5 at osflash.org
>> http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/red5_osflash.org
>
>
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>